Andrew and Debbie Jones have 5 kids: Sam, Lizzy, Abi, Hannah and TJ. They left Orkney (an island off the north coast of Scotland) in March 2009 to travel the world in a 4×4 Overlander truck named Maggie.
In an email to me Debbie asked, “Seems most other nomadic families only travel for a short time and/or smaller areas. Know any traveling the world overland, like us?”
Well, I do know of some other long-term traveling families, but after interviewing Debbie, I can safely say that I know of nobody else remotely like the Joneses. They describe themselves as a “bizarre collection of individualists” and I’d say that hits the mark. What a crazy, fun-loving, creative family. Spend some time on their blog after reading this interview and you’ll see what I mean.
the Jones family in their rock star pose
In my interview with Debbie, you’ll learn:
- what it’s like going from living with ex-prostitutes & drug addicts one day, to a 4-star hotel the next day, to a New Zealand yurt…
- Debbie’s original take on minimalism vs. materialism
- how seven strong-willed, creative individuals manage to get along in a 29-foot truck
- how each of the five Jones children is choosing to pursue a non-traditional education
Without further ado, here’s the interview.
1. In your about page you say “We do not see ourselves as being on break from our lives but finally finding out what we are better suited for.” This really struck a chord with me as I’ve noticed that people often perceive travelers as being on perpetual vacation. What is it specifically about the travel lifestyle that is a good fit for you?
Just before we launched out this time we were trying to be “normal” on an island off the north coast of Scotland, Orkney. We had a pretty good life. Not a lot of money coming in but enough. We were renting a 2 story apartment and a big room downstairs for my pottery business.
When I mentioned to a close friend that we were buying a truck and going back on the road she said, “What fun! Oh, lucky you. I wish I could do that.” In the middle of the night she rushed into our house grabbed me by the shoulders and said, “YOU CAN’T DO THAT. IT’S GOING TO BE HARD. YOU’LL DIE.”
You see, we aren’t on vacation, we are continually re-adapting to our continually changing surroundings while trying to maintain a sense of family continuity. Hell on earth, for me, would be being a perpetual tourist. We hate tourist stuff. What we love is seeing our amazing world. Celebrating varying cultures. Validating the beauty and Challenging the bad. Finding quietly growing seeds of beauty and goodness and finding ways to help it grow. In continually changing environments we learn to all see ourselves with more truth. Who we are outside of our cultural baggage.
shopping at a Bali market for a Thanksgiving celebration
This week we are in Indonesia. We are in a community called “Xtreme.” We are living with ex-prostitutes and drug addicts who are HIV+ and the orphan kids that their friends left behind when they died. We are sleeping on mattresses on the floor with no privacy and lots of noise. Authentic time with real people who have had hard lives. We are struggling with communication. A woman down the street brings in amazing, home-cooked Indonesian food. We go shopping for food in dark, damp local markets. It is really hot and sticky. We are eating amazing local fruit and veg. Exotic fruits that I have never seen before.
In the middle of next week we will still be in Indonesia but staying in a 4 star hotel with friends. These friends are flying in from around the world to try to find ways to help “Xtreme” start businesses to support themselves. We will be meeting with a real estate investor from Asia, a local restaurant owner and investor, a businessman who has started many award-winning hostels in Europe. We will be going to nice restaurants and sleeping on soft beds in air-conditioned rooms.
After that we will go to New Zealand where the beautiful fruit and veg will be but a memory. Food will be expensive and we will be living in a storm-damaged yurt for 2 months on farms belonging to our friends because we left our truck in Turkey and we can’t afford to even stay at a campground cabin much less rent our own apartment.
Life is always changing. We need to continually adjust. It is great fun but can be very difficult sometimes.
2. Many travelers pride themselves on being minimalists. You seem to have struck a healthy balance between having no more is needed, but also not embracing minimalism for its own sake. How has your relationship with “stuff” changed since the days when all your earthly belongings fit into a few backpacks?
I don’t know if I would really consider ourselves minimalists. We have way too many books and I can’t travel without art and sewing supplies. I even have a hand-crank sewing machine in our truck!
However, we are always trying to see how little we can live with. The prospect of traveling east, in our truck, and needing to take everything out of our truck and placing it on the sidewalk makes you really think about how much you need.
inside Maggie the truck
At first, I noticed that the smaller amount of things that I possess become more important to me. I actually became MORE materialistic rather than less. A ring or a cup or a piece of cloth.
Because of our lifestyle, things got destroyed or lost. Over the years I have learned that I don’t need to possess something beautiful in order to fully enjoy it. Yeah, I think that would be my biggest step. I still love to see beauty and to create but I am much quicker to marvel at it where it is and walk away or to give something away so the next person can enjoy it.
3. You know the old saying, “You can choose your friends but you can’t choose your family.” I imagine that when home is a 29 foot long truck, it’s pretty important to stay good friends with your family! How do you iron out differences of opinion on the road? Would you describe your family as a democracy or an autocracy?
Spend just a small amount of time with us and you will realize that we are all painfully imperfect people and we don’t always see eye-to-eye. We are all strong, creative people. However, these are some things that help.
Communication is really important. I know everyone says this but it is life for us. Because we have such a small living space we can catch problems quite quickly and address issues. If we don’t catch problems quickly they become unbearable.
Some questions that can be heard quite frequently around our truck. “Would YOU want to be treated that way?”, “How can you make it right?”, “How can you create your own special space right now?”, and “How can I help you with that?”
When things seem to be getting out of control we pull back. We consider that we might have lost our “center”. We have a family meeting and everyone gets a chance to “check in” and say what they need.
4. Your truck Maggie’s story could have been very different if her original owner had managed to convince his wife to go to Nepal. In your own lives, can you think of any “stories that didn’t happen” – missed opportunities, major regrets or the like?
Hard question. So many “stories that didn’t happen.” Sometimes I wish that we would have spent more time in “The Developing World.” I wouldn’t trade a single relationship or day that we have had in the West. If I focus on what could have been I would have less ability to live in the present and enjoy the journey.
We do have regrets, we will discuss them a bit and then move on. My mom always used to say, “Hind sight is 20-20″. We also pay “dumb tax”. Dumb tax is money wasted because we didn’t know better. Paying too much for something. Buying the wrong sticker for the windscreen, etc.
5. The one I ask everyone: How do you afford to maintain a travel lifestyle? Do you earn money as you go or are you living off savings?
We earn money as we go. Andrew is a writer, teacher, blogger and researcher. I am an artist.
Some people also give us money because they like the things we do and the people we help. We are told we can also take a commission for money we raise for good things we see and for people we introduce to each other, especially when people make money out of the new relationship but we don’t. Sometimes the latter give us something but that is up to them.
We aren’t very good at making money. However, we love the challenge of learning to live with less and keep challenging ourselves to live more and more frugally. On the road, we are frequently meeting people that are living on less than us. That french “pirate” in his truck heading east who dumpster dives for food and fixes his truck with trash. He has taught himself to juggle fire and weld so he can trade for goods and services. We are now living among those who have no choice but to live simpler and are teaching us heaps.
6. In our emails, we were discussing synchronicity, which is a topic that really interests me. You mentioned that you are now in Olympus, Turkey and recently ran into a friend you met in Vama Veche, Romania! What other unlikely coincidences have emerged in your journeys?
When you live on the road, weaving in and out of so many worlds synchronicity is expected. We often refer to it as “Serendipity.” When we part with new friends, more times than not, we make no plans to meet again. We know if we are meant to see each other again we will and we will find each other at the right time.
A friend running out of the desert waving his arms in the Sahara.
Sleeping on a woman’s living room floor, in Istanbul, and finding we have close, mutual friends, in Texas.
Walking down a hill in Olympus, Turkey and hearing the familiar sound of a truck that we left in Vama Veche, Romania.
Like minded people find each other when they need to so there is no reason to be sad at partings.
7. I read on your site that Lizzie is attending university online while traveling with you and Sam is studying film in New Zealand. How are Abi, Hannah and TJ getting an education? Do you have any tips for families who are nervous about pulling their kids out of school to travel?
the kids sort through multiple currencies as part of their homeschool experience
At 16 years old Abi has declared that she is ready to finish and move on to more adventures. When I went to the U.S.A. last year I bought Abi a ridiculously enormous book that is preparing her for her GED Exam. I could just see the gratitude on her face : ) When she is ready we will book her in for an exam at a United States embassy/consulate. She thinks she will be done in 6 months.
Hannah and TJ are working through workbooks from New Zealand as it is our “base” and it is the most likely place they will continue their education. We have previously homeschooled based in the UK and before that USA. I have my favourite books. For math I love “Life of Fred” or the “Key to …” series. For Spelling I love “Spelling Power.” Presently we are just doing the workbooks from esa.co.nz so they can learn the New Zealand curriculum. I like the New Zealand science. It includes lots on farming.
the 5 kids at the Freakstock Festival in Germany
We are very aware that the real education happens outside the workbooks and are continually taking opportunities as there is interest and as they present themselves. Too structured of a program and you miss out on the really great, life-changing parts of travel. I am a strong advocate of “active learning” over “passive learning” and am continually looking out for “learning readiness” in my kids. If they are particularly interested in an area they will learn and retain more. Looking for “Learning Readiness” is a great way of connecting to my kids and helping them through childhood and into adulthood.
I think we all have a balance of “traditional homeschooling” and “unschooling.” We need to find the balance that suits us and our kids. We know it right away when we get it right.
8. Travel of any kind is often punctuated with unexpected events, changes in plan, and the odd disaster. How do you stay grounded and sane when life throws you a curve ball? Do any specific spiritual or philosophical beliefs contribute to your modus operandi?
We seem to expect the unexpected. Living on the road we ARE more vulnerable and the unexpected becomes expected. A couple of weeks ago I wrote in my facebook, “I think it is the best traveling companion who says she can be disappointed and even bored if all goes as planned.” I wrote this about a German woman who joined us expecting to travel with the family in the truck and is now flying with us to India, Indonesia and New Zealand.
We do hold to specific beliefs in a Creator God who cares about us,looks after us and directs us, when we are listening. We are from Christian backgrounds but don’t care much for the religious baggage. We see things in the Bible that we call “Kingdom Values” or “Things that make God Happy” and try to live by them. We believe in a God that loves us so much that he leaves clues all over the world for us to discover more truth about Him/Her. It is the most amazing adventure to find these clues in some pretty unexpected of places.
delivering supplies to the survivors of the Turkish earthquake
9. I just noticed the new link on your site – Turkish Earthquake Relief. You’ve moved all your personal possessions out of Maggie and are using her to transport supplies to the 50,000 people left homeless by the earthquake. Where do things stand now and how can my readers help you help the earthquake survivors?
Andrew and Priscilla went to the earthquake zone and brought blankets, coats and baby food. Andrew has always dreamed of doing that and we continually look for opportunities to help wherever we are. Our truck was perfect for the initial days when the roads were bad but now bigger can get through with supplies and we are not needed so we only did one trip. If people still want to help we have discovered some amazing people that are continuing to do a great job. Just email us and we will link you up.
(end of interview. all photos on this page are copyright Jonesberries.com.)
Thanks Debbie for such honest and genuine answers.
I have a funny feeling I will run into the Jones family on the road one day. I’ll tell you all about it when I do, but until then, you can follow their family adventures at jonesberries.com.
What do you think of the Jonesberries approach to family travel?
I want to help you find your calm center and experience travel with courage, curiosity and compassion.